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CF2 2.3 Diesel Glow Plug Circuit Upgrading

Post by GoodShipCF2 » Subscribing Member » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:59 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:38 pm
Posts: 37
Hi Folks ,
latest update .... CF2 is parked at caravan storage whilst I sort selling Nissan Almera and daily Fiat Multi transport out . She currently won't start . I suspect sticking fuel pump solenoid and I will have to test that next. Also found Glow plug ,which is second from gearbox end ( is that cylinder 3 ... sorry to seem dumb ) is duff. Multimeter test for resistance and comparing to others . I have been reading on Landy websites , Google etc ... that popular among LandRover 2.25 diesel owners is converting glowplug circuit to a more modern parallell one ? Anyone done this ? I am trying to put up pictures of my current system but I am struggling with Gimp editing software ? :wall:
The GLASS - Pessimist it's half empty... Optimist it's half full ... Engineer it's twice the size it needs to be ...

Re: CF2 2.3 Diesel Glow Plug Circuit Upgrading

Post by GoodShipCF2 » Subscribing Member » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:54 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:38 pm
Posts: 37
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The GLASS - Pessimist it's half empty... Optimist it's half full ... Engineer it's twice the size it needs to be ...

Re: CF2 2.3 Diesel Glow Plug Circuit Upgrading

Post by GoodShipCF2 » Subscribing Member » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:57 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:38 pm
Posts: 37
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The GLASS - Pessimist it's half empty... Optimist it's half full ... Engineer it's twice the size it needs to be ...

Re: CF2 2.3 Diesel Glow Plug Circuit Upgrading

Post by GoodShipCF2 » Subscribing Member » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:24 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:38 pm
Posts: 37
Hi Folks ,
I have had starting problems with my CF2 2.3 diesel since I bought it , in June 2016. I was not really keen on the RAC man pumping loads of Easystart into it ...His take was.... this is a low compression motor mate and they are crap starters from cold .... I have to admit ... I was sort of forming that impression. However I like to give her the benefit of the doubt , as I have no experience with Bedford CF motors. I am impressed with warm starting as she normally fires on first few revolutions of the starter !!!
Regards the RAC man and easystart , for any of you that have looked at my posts and general thread... you will know that I was in quite a tricky and not pleasent , set of circumstances. Now thanks to huge support from my work , friends and family , I am renting a two bedroom house , slowly making improvements with my Cancer and the old girl is parked at a local caravan storage. The lady who owns the caravan storage is sympathetic to my situation , as her two , late husbands both past away with Cancer. The improvement in circumstances was also due to living in GoodshipCF2 for over 6months and saving as much as possible to make the two bed place etc feasible.
I have just had the starter motor reconditioned by a local , Persian guy , Hadji . He did a cracking job and now she turns over lovely. Someone has worked on the old girl and she is littered with those horrid Botch locks ( scotch locks ) . I discovered from the new starter motor that the starter main cable was shot too . That has also been replaced with new cable.

Things as they currently stand , she is refusing to fire up . She has been stood for several months without running at all. I should know from my days on the road , this was not a good idea. If I ever left her for more than 24hrs I had to go through this folloowing routine to start. Open the bonnet . slack the bleed screw on top of the Bosch Fuel Pump , squeeze until fuel flowed. Leave screw open and turn over for 5 secs. Tighten screw. Turn over again for 5 secs. Hold glow plug switch for either 15 secs and turn over. If mild weather she would fire first time and I would run on just over tick over , the sweet rev sound ( I did it by ear as taught in my Farm Tractor days , as no rev counter ) . If very cold weather , I might have to repeat glow plug 15 secs for a 2nd or 3rd time. However she would always start. As long as she had not been left for longer than 24hrs without running she would normally, always start without touching the pump bleed screw , just turn over 5secs , glow plugs 15secs and normally only one glow plug run. I have seen that one of the lads doing a Frontera 2.3TD conversion also fitted a pre-pump fuel pump to pressurise the fuel pump before start up , or this was just simply the 2.3TD set up anyway. I am hoping to do this myself to mine.

Things as they stand ... not starting ... no 3 glow plug ( second from gearbox end ) is duff . I suspect the stop solenoid in the fuel pump is faulty too as no fuel is getting to the injectors ( bled air screw on pump , opened injector and cranked until battery died . This was fully charged new battery ) .
Please look at my glow plug set-up photos and any advise or suggestions about changing this a modern parallell version like the Landy boys do , will be greatly appreciated . I will add to post , as I resolve starting issues , which I need to do before September as I need to drive the girl to someone to have a look at rotting bodywork , give some advice , quotes etc

Best wishes to all :thumb: :brew:

Kevin - B'ham
The GLASS - Pessimist it's half empty... Optimist it's half full ... Engineer it's twice the size it needs to be ...

Re: CF2 2.3 Diesel Glow Plug Circuit Upgrading

Post by GoodShipCF2 » Subscribing Member » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:34 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:38 pm
Posts: 37
Hi Folks ,
A great huge thanks to Phil on the site for sorting photos ... with GIMP !!!! I failed .... Using GIMP was simply sending me GIMP !!!! :wall:
I hope the photos help :shock:

Best wishes to all

God the basic plan is to get some Quality Time in the old girl , have some fun and make a few memories with laughs . So far my youngest daughter Lizzie's comments are " I like the Badford ... My Nickname ... lets call her Charlie ( She is C-reg ) ... Well we did have a debate about vehicles being Female .... I just said that's all I know as my late Dad , all the blokes I grew up with ... reffferred to vehicles in the Feminine .... When I took Lizzie to the storage to change the starter motor back and fire her up ... " This isn't going well ... is it Dad ? " ..... Don't worry I said ... it's being logical and methodical as well as having determination :o .... I am not known for logic or methodicism ?
My other daughter Victoria just thinks Charlie is LOUD, SLOW , basically crap .... What to speak of the grown autisitic spectrum elder two .... Daughter-in-law and son-in-law....


Like I said to Lizzie..... those three .... Plus as Anthony Robbins quotes .... you need a vision .... Maybe he meant a Honda Vision on the back .... so when it won't start .... !!! :lol:

:brew:
The GLASS - Pessimist it's half empty... Optimist it's half full ... Engineer it's twice the size it needs to be ...

Re: CF2 2.3 Diesel Glow Plug Circuit Upgrading

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Post by Phil Bradshaw » Club admin » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:37 pm
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:15 pm
Posts: 3587
What you have is an incomplete original cold start system mounted in the wrong place (to a van that originally had a petrol engine going from the air cleaner bracket still left on the bulkhead).

As well as a thermal switch (1) here should be 2 solenoids, one for warm-up (2), the other (3) to run the glow plugs when the starter is operated, and the whole lot should be securely mounted and grounded on a plate with a splash cover that is attached to the bulkhead beneath the heater air intake.

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Later single cold start timer relay can be fitted but that will bring a different set of problems.

Ordinary 12V starter solenoid will fill the gap on the original system.

I should have a wiring diagram somewhere...

EDIT

Timer relay wiring -

Image

Check relay for 70 Amp rating; lighter units will die (braid link to contact plate will melt).
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  • What is real is not the external form but the idea, the essence of things. Constantin Brâncuși

Re: CF2 2.3 Diesel Glow Plug Circuit Upgrading

Post by GoodShipCF2 » Subscribing Member » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:03 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:38 pm
Posts: 37
Hi Phil ,
many thanks for replying on the post. I'll let you know how I get on and post some photos of the whole process . That is , getting to the bottom of the starting issue , sorting it , changing the glow plugs , upgrading the glow plug circuit etc..

Was the RAC guy correct about the low compression on the 2.3D and cold starting issues ? Can you raise the compression on these engines at all ? What kind of job is it to raise the compression ?

Many thanks Kevin - B'ham :brew:
The GLASS - Pessimist it's half empty... Optimist it's half full ... Engineer it's twice the size it needs to be ...

Re: CF2 2.3 Diesel Glow Plug Circuit Upgrading

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Post by Phil Bradshaw » Club admin » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:29 pm
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:15 pm
Posts: 3587
Low cylinder compression can cause poor starting. Permanent cloud of grey-blue smoke from the exhaust confirms.

Cold start aid you have being half dead is what to fix first: glow plugs not working properly is top of the troubleshoot list for poor cold starting. Also easier to fix than winkling out an engine to fix or replace. :)
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  • What is real is not the external form but the idea, the essence of things. Constantin Brâncuși

Re: CF2 2.3 Diesel Glow Plug Circuit Upgrading

Post by GoodShipCF2 » Subscribing Member » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:49 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:38 pm
Posts: 37
Hi Phil ,
Warm weather is helping . She started first turn with 5 secs on glow plugs . All checked using Voltmeter , continuity and 20V voltage setting

Fault 1 - The spring loaded Glow Plug switch to power the only solenoid has an intermittent fault , New one on order , so I held in certain position using cable-tie. Then proceeded

Fault 2 - all the connections on solenoid , thermal switch and glow plug circuit were badly corroded , so I cleaned all up using sandpaper and wet and dry

I then checked fuel pump cut off solenoid , after cleaning it's connector up , it clicked fine

I then bled air to fuel pump air bleed screw using the hand pump . Then I cracked injector near to gearbox , I held glow plugs for 5 secs and turned over . As soon as air was bled she started no problem.

I have warmed engine up and soaked the glow plugs in Krano oil . A while ago I did some research on Gogglehead and a top BMW mechanic did a whole piece on siezed glow plugs . He basically warms the engine up to operating temperature and then soaks the glow plugs in Krano oil ( this is an Engineer's creep oil ) for 24hrs . Stage two is spraying glow plug stud with Plus gas and then very gently turning a fraction tighter ... If they won't budge ... Resoak in Krano oil over 24hrs . Once they crack they come out. Using this technique , he has yet had to remove a head . So I have soaked mine for 24hrs. Even though I only have one plug down , I'm changing all 4 .

Phil , the wire from my thermal switch then goes to the glow plug at No 4 Gearbox end . Can I use 4 independent leads to go from here to each glow plug , then being in parallell ? Or is it more complex than this ?
I'd rather upgrade myself than pay an Auto Sparkie ....

Many thanks

Kevin .... Now the old girl is running .... I have got to Steam Clean all the crap off and send you photos for the oil leaks etc .....

Then hopefully once I get up to folks at Car SOS I'll let you know how that all goes

many thanks for your help and input :thumb:

best wishes - Kevin - B'ham :brew:
The GLASS - Pessimist it's half empty... Optimist it's half full ... Engineer it's twice the size it needs to be ...

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