Where to find help when you want to change major units on your CF - engine, transmission, brakes etc. - or upgrade earlier models to later specifications.

Another 2.3 TD engine swap

Post by bedfordcf2van Contact bedfordcf2van » Tue May 29, 2018 2:46 pm
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:47 pm
Posts: 82
I'm swapping the 2.3TD engine from a Frontera into a CF1.

I have seen that several people have done this swap before and it seems very straight forward (the blocks are the same).

We already knew some custom work was needed but it looks like it's more than we were expecting.

One of the jobs is the oil sump. You have to use the CF sump because the Frontera sump doesn't clear the front beam. One of the problems is that the CF sump needs a oil return flange from the turbo (and 2 extra oil pickup and return fittings for the Frontera alternator/vacum pump).

In this case we are going to opt to use the Frontera alternator/vacum pump and the oil fittings are threaded onto the sump but the CF sump doesn't have enough thickness to ensure enough threads for the fittings....

On the other side, the turbo oil return line-flange is bolted to the Frontera sump.

I went to a machine shop to ask if they would weld on some washers to get the desired thickness for the fittings but the guy say's they prefer not to do it because the sump is sand casted and full of impurities and it's difficult to get a clean weld.

Now we are back to the drawing board to figure out a way to attach those oil lines.....

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Re: Another 2.3 TD engine swap

Post by bedfordcf2van Contact bedfordcf2van » Tue May 29, 2018 3:00 pm
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:47 pm
Posts: 82
In this case: https://forum.bedfordcf.org/viewtopic.p ... erer#p3287

it looks like wnderer just drilled some holes and put bolts inside the sump to attach the flange...
what if it starts to leak oil there? You have to remove the sump to replace the gasket? Doesn't seem to be the best option...


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Re: Another 2.3 TD engine swap

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Post by Phil Bradshaw » Club admin » Tue May 29, 2018 7:06 pm
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:15 pm
Posts: 3543
Maybe fit a backing plate inside the oil pan that has the same shape as (or larger than) a surface mount turbo drain adaptor flange with 2 or more bolt holes?

Backing plate with studs welded to it could become a 'permanent' fixture inside the oil pan by using, e.g. black silicone RTV (Loctite 598 or similar for long term stability - datasheets here).

Sealing against external leakage then would be the drain adaptor gasket on the outside.
  • What is real is not the external form but the idea, the essence of things. Constantin Brâncuși

Re: Another 2.3 TD engine swap

Post by bedfordcf2van Contact bedfordcf2van » Wed May 30, 2018 5:18 pm
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:47 pm
Posts: 82
I have thought of that option, a steel flange inside with the bolts welded on.

My friend wants to take it to another shop to try welding. I don't know yet what we will do.

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Re: Another 2.3 TD engine swap

Post by bedfordcf2van Contact bedfordcf2van » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:44 pm
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:47 pm
Posts: 82
Initially we were going to use the CF valve cover and intake manifold to keep the original (like other people have done before) look but after taking a close look at the originals and the frontera's I think we will have to change that plan.

The CF valve cover is lower profile and it seemed to hit... but after removing the splash plate (the oil caps are in different positions) I think there is enough clearance.
But there is another problem. The oil breather hole is 3 or 4 times larger on the Frontera. I'm guessing that the turbo engine needs better breathing so they designed a much larger breather tube. :?: Now if I use the CF cover with the small breather, will that effect the performance or reliability??
Now if I use the Frontera cover another problem surges, the location of that breather tube and the extra height of the valve cover will very probably hit the dog house....

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Re: Another 2.3 TD engine swap

Post by bedfordcf2van Contact bedfordcf2van » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:49 pm
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:47 pm
Posts: 82
The problem with the intake manifolds is that the CF one uses the air filters inside, so the housing is very large. We will have to use a external air box for the turbo in both cases but the Frontera intake is much smaller and has better flowing. I think both of them can work with the turbo but the Frontera intake will have better performance.

Most setups I have seen with the frontera intake require some bashing of the firewall to clear.
In this case we don't wan't to modify the firewall so the only option is to modify the curve of the manifold by cutting and welding in back on in a straight line.

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Re: Another 2.3 TD engine swap

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Post by Phil Bradshaw » Club admin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:59 pm
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:15 pm
Posts: 3543
Difference in engine ventilation tube diameter may reflect the difference in pipe length and also proximity to the intake ports, hence smaller diameter on the CF.
  • What is real is not the external form but the idea, the essence of things. Constantin Brâncuși

Re: Another 2.3 TD engine swap

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Post by VDUB384 » Club admin » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:15 am
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:01 am
Posts: 1323
It's only a suggestion but would it be possible to drill the holes and fit some threaded unions into the sump with a locking nut on the inside then put the pipes onto the unions.
Dave
Whilst good maintainece is the best prevention"If its not broken don't fix it."
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Re: Another 2.3 TD engine swap

Post by bedfordcf2van Contact bedfordcf2van » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:53 pm
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:47 pm
Posts: 82
VDUB384 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:15 am
It's only a suggestion but would it be possible to drill the holes and fit some threaded unions into the sump with a locking nut on the inside then put the pipes onto the unions.
Dave
That's the plan Dave.
The CF sump is too thin to thread fittings into.
We can't use the original Frontera fittings because the thread isn't long enough to fit a nut inside.
So were looking for longer fittings to use.

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Re: Another 2.3 TD engine swap

Post by bedfordcf2van Contact bedfordcf2van » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:02 pm
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:47 pm
Posts: 82
Phil Bradshaw wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:59 pm
Difference in engine ventilation tube diameter may reflect the difference in pipe length and also proximity to the intake ports, hence smaller diameter on the CF.
From what I have been reading Phil, Turbo engines generate higher pressures inside so the breather tubes are larger diameter.

We could get away with using the CF valve cover but we have decided to play it safe and use the Frontera one.

That breather tube connects to the air filter box and we will probably be installing a oil catch can also.

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