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Hi folks I have a Bedford CF2 Coachbody Motorhome. Failed MOT on front drums as auto adjusters appear to not be working . Not famaliar with this set up but I can't fathom how they adjust the shoes ? I have twin cylinder shoe set up on 10" drums . 350 chassis. Can any one help ? Thanks Kevin - B'ham :wall:
only two things are infinite , the universe and human stupidity . I am not certain about the former. Albert Einstien

Postby GoodShipCF2 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:45 pm


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Phil Bradshaw
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Friction washer assembly -

Image

The friction washer assembly permits movement of the toothed plate on its pivot in the brake shoe when the pedal is depressed.

Adjuster fully off (also the assembly position when refitting shoes) -

Image

When the pedal is depressed and the brake shoe moves towards the drum the post in the flange plate (back plate) forces the toothed plate away from the drum.

When the brake is released and the brake shoe moves away from the drum under pressure from the pull-off springs the spring steel pawl engages the first available tooth in the toothed plate.

The friction washers now serve to hold the toothed plate in this position until the next brake application.

If the friction assembly is working correctly then the brake will auto-adjust once the van is back on its wheels and the hub bearing end float is adjusted correctly.

First pump the pedal (engine running) until it won't go any harder then drive off (carefully!) and gradually increase braking effort until the pedal hardens up some more and the brakes pull straight.

Common cause of brake imbalance at MoT test is lack of use; if linings and drums are clean then often a session of moderate to heavy braking to warm up the drums prior to the test can make the difference.

For really stubborn imbalance problems try fitting new shoes or get the old ones relined if there's a friction linings specialist near you.
    What is real is not the external form but the idea, the essence of things. Constantin Brâncuși

Postby Phil Bradshaw » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:32 pm


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Hi Phil .... Many thanks for posting a reply regards front brakes :thumb: . Before I go at the front brakes I will explain full stages so far. Pedal went to floor and no brakes a few months back. Found failed offside rear cylinder failed and chucked out fluid. Van been stood for long period prior to purchase. Found your forum and did my own research. Ordered from BRAKES INT but correct Bedford cylinder the tiny bleed nipple fouled on backplate bolts by cylinder mounting point. Further digging revealed LDV Convoy rear axle is identical to mine ? That had same cylinder and shoe set up , so not only ordered wheel cylinder with extra long bleed nipple but Rod adjuster assembled from LDV DIRECT PARTS . As MOT was coming up I stripped both rear brakes and cleaned up, new wheel cylinders, springs , adjusters and rod assembled. Followed your excellent online article for setting up brakes. Also mate replaced corroded pipes with copper. Using Esibleed we found we had to really tighten ( more than we liked ) fittings to stop leakage. Master cylinder failed. I stripped and seals and inner bore were gone. Searching on EBay and other sources I became despondent and was thinking of sending my Master Cylinder to PastParts. Found a tandem cylinder from a Sherpa on EBay so got that. Blanked off 3rd port underneath rear port and mate and I found we had to depress the pedal ( as in manual pedal pump bleeding ) as well as having Esibleed on ( 15psi ) in order to expel air. Bled and brakes working fine. Well I can't say how well as I have no driving experience with Cf2 350 Motorhome chassis but seemed adequate. Oh when I stripped the rears the drums were siezed solid so I removed driveshafts etc, freed drums and cleaned everything up, greased and set hubs etc using Haynes Manual and your forum. Also ground off lips on drums. Mot came up and failed on Rear Fog ( gunked up switch internals ) , cleaned switch. Play in front bearings which I adjusted. Got back to Mot and failed on weeping offside front cylinder ! So stripped and completely cleaned both fronts. Came to bleed and Master Cylinder failed .... Fluid flowing out at mount point by servo. Stripped Master cylinder and seals and bore seemed OK ( this is a new pattern one for the Sherpa ) My mate reckoned a lot of pattern stuff for the price is made in India/China etc. So I called PastParts for advice. Sent the cylinder to them . They inspected and pressure tested. Changed the seals which were incorrect seals. I've got the Master Cylinder back. I booked the MOt place to adjust fronts and bleed as I had pressures and commitments resulting in me being unable to do. They could not bleed it. They passed to a commercial guy who could not adjust the front shoes up and hence not start bleeding. When I stripped and cleaned both front adjuster assemblers ( 4 ) I put copper grease on the friction washers and all that Spring assembled etc. Fitted new cylinders etc and put drums on before I took to Mot place on mates whale tale . The Master Cylinder has been fully pressure tested and repaired by PastParts. I was now thinking of taking the front drums off , cleaning up all adjusters again , taking off copper grease and then seeing if the shoes will adjust at all with the drums off. Oh I put new shoe springs on the front shoes and they seemed stronger than the old ones ! Any thoughts and help would be greatly appreciated as the CF2 is my current home while I save for rented accommodation . As well as working on the Van I'm under pressure To find a hook up site local to prep and set the van up like a caravan to cope with more severe weather. The Carver Gas Convection fire has a start up fault but once going works fine. Problem is on min setting it makes the Van like an Oven !! Hook up would mean I could use the Carver in conjunction with an Electric Oil Rad on a Timer as well as use some ply and Thinsulate ( or equivalent ) to improve heat retention. To put this all into Perspective for anyone wondering why the hell I'm doing this ....... . .? I have Aggressive Terminal Prostate Cancer from 2014. Unfortunately due to this pressure , my marriage broke down . I have not took anything from the house as I did not want to impact my family further. I'm on the housing but private rental is more realistic. The Van is to save for that rental but hopefully with the help of my savvy experienced fitter mate I can also fix the van to be able to use to take the kids away on the weekend. The weekend ideas will depend on sorting out the GM 2.3 Diesel with ZF 5 Speed as on the level motorwAy it's flat out at 55mph wringing it's neck! Hit a serious incline a and your down to almost single figures. I'm a HGV Driver so I don't expect miracles but also Idon't particularly want to be having Artics cutting me up. I am not famaliar with the classic world except a Massey 135 that I used a lot as a kid on the farms. I have driven lots of Modern vans and 7.5tonners ! At the moment getting a place for my kids and I is No 1 goal but the Cf has turned into a bit of a challenge , not wanting to be beaten as well as the practical stuff mentioned above. Of course my Cancer overshadows all this but I have huge support and I've done much better Homework with that than I have the Van ! Any help will be very very greatly appreciated. If you want to do CF SOS and sort me a CF 350 Wide arch twin axle with classic CF front and a modern petrol monster ...... Well lads you'd be the best and Blessed By God !
only two things are infinite , the universe and human stupidity . I am not certain about the former. Albert Einstien

Postby GoodShipCF2 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:15 pm


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Phil Bradshaw
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Definitely clean off grease from the front adjuster friction washers: they're supposed to be assembled dry.

Also try going back to the original pull-off springs: springs too strong can stop the adjuster from working.
    What is real is not the external form but the idea, the essence of things. Constantin Brâncuși

Postby Phil Bradshaw » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:37 pm


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Hi Phil ,
many thanks for your reply. I thought the same thing about the springs as I could tell the new replacement springs were stronger , Tension than the existing. New problem now. Someone has snapped two of the manual adjusters on the backplates. I am not familiar with this brake set up or adjustment system. I am more familiar with modern Japanese car drums. :thumb:
When I disassembled the front drums etc I tried to figure out how it worked by that and the Haynes manual , supplement pages. I am guessing the manual backplate adjustment pin with the square cam is essential as a pivot for the auto adjusters ? Does the square cam work off , what appears as weld nibbles , on the inside of the backplate ? Or does it work off the profile of the pressing of the backplate ?
Do you know where I can get these adjusters from or is it a case of finding an Engineering company to repair, make new ones for me. I would really appreciate any help as at the moment I am in a right pickle. No MOT and the Van is in the Works Yard. Work are huge support but I am having to Couch surf and rough it in the car at present. :wall:
Any help at all aprreciated. Many thanks Kevin
only two things are infinite , the universe and human stupidity . I am not certain about the former. Albert Einstien

Postby GoodShipCF2 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:09 am


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Phil Bradshaw
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Front drum brake with automatic adjusters shouldn't have any other means of adjustment fitted.
    What is real is not the external form but the idea, the essence of things. Constantin Brâncuși

Postby Phil Bradshaw » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:29 pm


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Hi Phil ,
I have thoroughly cleaned up the adjusters and re-assembled them. I have measured the Drums ( mine are 10 inch ) and they are 0.5 mm off service limit. The shoes are also 1.5 mm off service limit. The shoe material shows fatigue and once I have the MOT sorted and better weather comes I'll complete the Brake overhaul by replacing front shoes. My rear shoes and drums are in good service condition ;) . As my Rear axle is the same as LDV Convoy I can get new drums and shoes OK :P . The Front Drums are not available :wall: but I have found a company that will make them ( unless you folks know of a supplier ? ) . I have one manual adjuster on the front nearside, out of the Four , that is intact :shock: . The others have obviously seized at various points and due to poor maintenance been snapped :shock: . Also the nibble / lump on the backplate that the square locks against , on the manual adjusters , is very worn on all fours :wall: . Do you know of anywhere where I can get the Manual adjuster, bolt arrangement, from ? Adrian Bailey said I'm looking at Broken spares and he no longer has any. Otherwise I'm looking at finding an Engineer to make me some up and also repair the backplates. :wall:

All of this is fixable , if I won the lotto I could get the Electric conversion done too ...... It's just the other pressures due to my circumstances , it would be great to get this sorted asap. If I have to go down the engineering route that is not only expensive but also I imagine will take a good few weeks......

Any help , advice , spares contacts would be greatly appreciated. Also , are these front drums unique to the Bedford CF or did other manufacturers use them ? I ask because like the REAR set up on mine .... LDV stuff is a lot easier and cheaper to get hold of than Bedford stuff. Cheers and all the best


Kevin - B'ham :shock:
only two things are infinite , the universe and human stupidity . I am not certain about the former. Albert Einstien

Postby GoodShipCF2 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:52 am


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Hi Phil ,
for getting parts etc what do I search on or tell the person on the phone. I searched on 10" twin leading shoe drum brakes and I keep getting stuff for Minis coming up ?

many thanks Kevin - B'ham :thumb:
only two things are infinite , the universe and human stupidity . I am not certain about the former. Albert Einstien

Postby GoodShipCF2 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:05 pm


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Hi Phil ,
My mate came to look at the wood, and the tree. Kindly he suggested to sell the wood to a logging company and laughed till he cried , taking the Micky ! :DD: Once he composed himself he re-stripped the Auto adjusters and looked at the drums, mechanism etc. Looked through the Haynes manual. The issue is with the siezed and broken posts. The nub on the shoe side of the drum that the square of the post stops against, to tighten the bolt on the outer part of the backplate. He did a trial with a bolt arrangement and is taking that with photos to an Engineering friend to make me up 4 new posts. He agreed with you , that the new springs have too much tension , so putting old springs back on. Possibly will find new springs of correct tension from a spring specialist . Also I need to source new shoe retaining pins and cup washers as the cup washers are worse for wear now ! Hopefully will be having some more positive posts over winter / new year period !
:thumb: best wishes to all

Kevin - B'ham :brew:
only two things are infinite , the universe and human stupidity . I am not certain about the former. Albert Einstien

Postby GoodShipCF2 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:36 am


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Phil Bradshaw
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Transit or LDV steady springs and caps will fit but short pins peculiar to CFs are hard to find.
    What is real is not the external form but the idea, the essence of things. Constantin Brâncuși

Postby Phil Bradshaw » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:56 am